Why Not Me? Repricing Your Worth as an Artist

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] USB Mics - 3: Welcome back to Art Is… a podcast for artists

[00:00:04] USB Mics - 3: This is season five, episode 10, and I'm delighted to be joined with my fellow co-host for this fifth season, Lauren Hill from Curated Splash.

[00:00:16] USB Mics - 1: Hello everyone. People spend money on the most random things. Tasha sells a limited edition book that comes with a piece of a meteor.

[00:00:30] USB Mics - 1: for $750,000. I know this obviously because I've worked for them for about seven years now, and I still dream of selling it. Earlier last year, I heard that a TikTok star was selling her farts in a jar for a thousand dollars each

[00:00:50] USB Mics - 1: I'm sure you have thoughts about both of these examples. The point is the people selling them do too. They believe that they can sell their product or service for whatever they price it at, and then they go out and do it because a consumer's price objection is actually never about the price. , but about the value they get for the price.

[00:01:18] USB Mics - 1: Why else would someone spend hundreds of dollars on an item only to hesitate when there's no free shipping?

[00:01:25] USB Mics - 1: My business coach, Stacy Beman, talks about not having shame in your business when selling certain products, or at least seeing your shame and understanding that it's not really necessary.

[00:01:44] USB Mics - 1: So, to explain this a little bit more in detail, I'll give you some examples. Maybe you sell. Portraits of your family, and it's your bread and butter, but you really wanna be painting a variety of different things. And there's a little bit of shame that you have that comes up because you think, well, if I wanna be painting all of these different things, and they're just portraits, like they're just portraits, but they're, that's still money coming in and that's still you being creative.

[00:02:20] USB Mics - 1: So it's kind of like seeing that shame, acknowledging it and understanding that, like you don't need to feel that shame because that's money in your business. Another example could be maybe you're a musician. and you create this really beautiful song that you love so much and you share with, you know, all your, your fans. And then a certain company comes along, maybe it's

[00:02:50] USB Mics - 1: Oatley, the oat milk, and they want to use your music in one of their commercials, and they offer you a lot of. , maybe there's a little bit of shame or guilt that comes up because you think, am I selling out as an artist when really it's like, this is money coming in in your business and people wanting to share your music.

[00:03:16] USB Mics - 1: So it's kind of examining that shame and, and making peace with it,

[00:03:22] USB Mics - 1: having

[00:03:22] USB Mics - 1: a relationship with it and letting it go so that you can create more abundance in your. and share your work.

[00:03:32] USB Mics - 3: that reminds me of

[00:03:33] USB Mics - 4: the story

[00:03:33] USB Mics - 3: told by Ash Keating about his professional art.

[00:03:37] USB Mics - 3: practice.

[00:03:37] USB Mics - 3: On the Beyond the Studio podcast, Ash is an abstract painter. He works on a massive scale and does beautiful spontaneous murals using fire extinguishers that are

[00:03:54] USB Mics - 4: pressurized

[00:03:54] USB Mics - 3: with paint and water.

[00:03:56] USB Mics - 3: The creations he

[00:03:57] USB Mics - 4: makes

[00:03:58] USB Mics - 3: are mesmerizing and so impactful that when he started off as kind of a renegade mural.

[00:04:07] USB Mics - 3: Doing

[00:04:07] USB Mics - 3: essentially graffiti projects

[00:04:09] USB Mics - 4: He

[00:04:10] USB Mics - 3: was quickly approached by different businesses and then eventually festivals to create installations for their events. He explains how his paintings really vibed with the entertainment space, whether that was restaurants or bars, um, festivals and music venue. and

[00:04:34] USB Mics - 3: He really loved being able to create pieces that, you know, people would see. Um, he shares the experience about

[00:04:41] USB Mics - 3: being,

[00:04:42] USB Mics - 3: he shares the experience of one of his paintings being the backdrop of a huge festival where thousands of people were dancing and having the time of their life listening to amazing music.

[00:04:52] USB Mics - 3: And in the backdrop was his painting.

[00:04:57] USB Mics - 3: He explains. as his practice evolved, he also became interested in doing gallery work and making smaller scale paintings that would be in a white cube,

[00:05:09] USB Mics - 4: and

[00:05:10] USB Mics - 3: realizing the difference between those two things and that his bread and butter, as Lauren said,

[00:05:17] USB Mics - 4: was

[00:05:18] USB Mics - 3: this kind of commercial practice. And

[00:05:23] USB Mics - 3: it's

[00:05:23] USB Mics - 3: interesting to think about how perhaps we judge ourselves or the work of other.

[00:05:27] USB Mics - 3: artists Who make work for restaurants or for bars or hotels or whatever it may be, when they're actually just putting their artwork into the world for people to

[00:05:38] USB Mics - 4: enjoy.

[00:05:39] USB Mics - 3: and so we invite you to begin to think about these biases that we have, we

[00:05:44] USB Mics - 4: We learn

[00:05:45] USB Mics - 3: them from art school or. from our parents or from society at large or whatever, or maybe they're just internal blocks that we have around shaming ourselves for doing the work that we love and making money

[00:06:01] USB Mics - 4: from

[00:06:01] USB Mics - 3: it.

[00:06:02] USB Mics - 3: And just because you make something for a restaurant doesn't mean you can't also be in a museum.

[00:06:10] USB Mics - 1: Yeah, we live in a material world and it's enjoyable to experience material things. I mean, I know that I love clothes, I love fashion. I love eating expensive foods, healthy foods. I love

[00:06:32] USB Mics - 1: experiencing.

[00:06:34] USB Mics - 1: Unique shows and all of these things take money, so why not have more relationship with enjoying the material world and learning how to sell?

[00:06:52] USB Mics - 1: I think there's a lot of discomfort that. When learning how to sell, if it's not something that you're that familiar with, especially when it comes to your own products, but to sell is human. We sell our favorite restaurants to our family or where we wanna go on vacations to our partner. We sell our views on artwork and music to our friends.

[00:07:18] USB Mics - 1: So why not learn how to sell your work and enjoy the process while you're.

[00:07:24] USB Mics - 1-1: There's discomfort and shame that come up when selling. , but there's also fear that holds you back from even trying to sell in the first place. So I recently had a coaching call with one of my, Who was working on proposing a large commission of paintings to one of her clients, she was feeling a lot of anxiety around the proposal because of the price

[00:08:00] USB Mics - 1-1: So we sat down and discussed in more detail. how to go about communicating the price and understanding why what she had to offer was so valuable. There's a lot of confusion that comes up when pricing artwork because there really is no standard for pricing any of your offer. , even when it comes to coaching, who sets the standard for coaching and is that standard right for you?

[00:08:44] USB Mics - 1-1: I recently had a conversation with one of my coaching friends too, who was so fixated on her price that she's struggling, even selling her coaching. So through all of this work, I have created an irresistible pricing f.

[00:09:01] USB Mics - 1-1: So that you can really feel confident sharing your price and get overthinking about it so much.

[00:09:09] USB Mics - 3-1: much.

[00:09:09] USB Mics - 3-1: I found this framework to be so impactful for myself, especially since a huge part of setting your price is checking in with your.

[00:09:20] USB Mics - 4-1: your.

[00:09:21] USB Mics - 3-1: on what you actually need

[00:09:23] USB Mics - 3-1: and what that number is.

[00:09:25] USB Mics - 3-1: there's a lot of tools out there to help you with this.

[00:09:29] USB Mics - 4-1: Some of

[00:09:30] USB Mics - 3-1: my favorites are jiggle and juices

[00:09:32] USB Mics - 3-1: support resources. they have countless articles on how to price your work, how to build out your practice, how to set up contracts, and lots of other useful tips that I highly recommend you check out.

[00:09:45] USB Mics - 3-1: So we'll be linking those in the show notes for

[00:09:48] USB Mics - 4-1: you.

[00:09:48] USB Mics - 3-1: But pricing as an artist also a psychological process, So it's important to you to set a price that you're actually really comfortable with and that you can have in your back pocket to

[00:10:03] USB Mics - 4-1: pull out

[00:10:04] USB Mics - 3-1: at a moment's notice. Gizela Lazarate who came on the show back in season four talks about this, how it's really important for her to sit down and assess what her fees and prices are gonna be for finished work for commissions, so that she's decided.

[00:10:22] USB Mics - 3-1: And when people inquire, she can immediately respond professionally

[00:10:28] USB Mics - 3-1: and not like flounder or be insecure you know,

[00:10:33] USB Mics - 4-1: keep

[00:10:34] USB Mics - 3-1: potential clients. waiting. it's so important to

[00:10:38] USB Mics - 4-1: prepare yourself.

[00:10:39] USB Mics - 3-1: You know, maybe you don't have any sales right now. You don't have anything in the pipeline. You've never sold anything

[00:10:45] USB Mics - 4-1: before, but that

[00:10:46] USB Mics - 3-1: doesn't mean that you won't.

[00:10:48] USB Mics - 3-1: And it's so important to think about that in advance and give yourself the

[00:10:54] USB Mics - 4-1: credit

[00:10:56] USB Mics - 3-1: that you can sell. and. so That's why I love Lauren's framework

[00:11:01] USB Mics - 4-1: because it really helps simplify

[00:11:04] USB Mics - 3-1: both the strategic and emotional psychological side of selling.

[00:11:09] USB Mics - 1-1: Yeah, I love what you had to say.

[00:11:12] USB Mics - 1-1: Just knowing, going into a conversation, keeping that in your back pocket so that when you

[00:11:19] USB Mics - 1-1: are presented with an opportunity to share your price and to sell that you're not so fluster. and overwhelmed and trying to figure it out on the fly, you know, what would a price be for you that would be a no-brainer,

[00:11:41] USB Mics - 3-1: something that

[00:11:44] USB Mics - 1-1: you feel super confident with, that you're not overpricing, but you are getting enough that you feel like your time is being value.

[00:11:57] USB Mics - 1-1: and your experience.

[00:12:00] USB Mics - 1-1: A great way to discover more about your pricing and the the worth of your work is to write down all the reasons why your work is so worth what you are selling it for, and why someone would get value out.

[00:12:22] USB Mics - 1-1: I like to use the example of sharing your favorite color with someone. When you share your favorite color, you don't have to give all the reasons why it's your favorite color. Most of the time, people just take it at face value. . So when you're sharing your price, you can go into it the same way, understanding beforehand why it's your favorite price, so that you don't have to explain yourself.

[00:12:52] USB Mics - 1-1: It's an energetic experience.

[00:12:56] USB Mics - 1-1: Another thing to think about would be the experience that you have when you have more experience that creates more confidence, and as a result you can charge higher prices. So what kind of experience do you have already? And what would you need to become an expert at what you're offering? What's the simplest way to develop that experience and get paid while you're doing it?

[00:13:27] USB Mics - 1-1: And if you don't feel like you have much experience yet, or you feel like you're a beginner, you can always just beta test by selling your products or services for free. It's a great way to get market.

[00:13:42] USB Mics - 1-1: And there's no shame in working for free, especially if you're new at something. That's how I landed my first job, selling millions of dollars worth of artwork at a gallery as an intern, and also I coached for free for two years

[00:13:59] USB Mics - 1-1: Another idea is to have multiple.

[00:14:04] USB Mics - 1-1: You can create high ticket ones that are really your bread, bread and butter, where you're making the most bang for your buck and maybe some lower end offers to gain more experience and build your audience. I like to think of the 80 20 rule. 80% of your products and services can be free or low cost, and then the other 20% should be your high end.

[00:14:32] USB Mics - 1-1: Picking a price and sticking with it is so important. we were both talking about earlier, is the anxiety and the fixation that can come with pricing. and a price is just a number. So pick something and stick with it long enough so that you can evaluate some other areas of your business, like networking, promotion, sales, copy, advertising, outreach, all of those things.

[00:15:02] USB Mics - 1-1: it's not typically the price that is the issue, it's your thoughts about the price that is the issue. So get really clear on what your thoughts are about the price so that you can feel confident to show up and share and sell.

[00:15:17] USB Mics - 3-1: It's funny to think about the role of. confidence In this extreme example of

[00:15:23] USB Mics - 4-1: late Virgil Alos

[00:15:25] USB Mics - 4-1: opinion on pricing,

[00:15:27] USB Mics - 3-1: he truly believed

[00:15:28] USB Mics - 4-1: that

[00:15:29] USB Mics - 3-1: only he could tell the value of his work, and so he would set the prices

[00:15:35] USB Mics - 4-1: at the standard that he

[00:15:36] USB Mics - 3-1: wanted. Of course, irony and humor was a huge part of his practice,

[00:15:41] USB Mics - 3-1: And so with the example of the Pyrex rugby jersey,

[00:15:46] USB Mics - 4-1: that

[00:15:46] USB Mics - 3-1: he

[00:15:48] USB Mics - 4-1: bought and repurposed

[00:15:49] USB Mics - 3-1: sold at a 700% markup is just an excellent example of.

[00:15:55] USB Mics - 3-1: the,

[00:15:59] USB Mics - 3-1: of the fact

[00:16:00] USB Mics - 4-1: that

[00:16:01] USB Mics - 3-1: pricing and self-belief go hand

[00:16:02] USB Mics - 4-1: in

[00:16:02] USB Mics - 3-1: hand.

[00:16:04] USB Mics - 3-1: of course, this is an extreme example and the, the element of Virgil's clothing that I love so much is,

[00:16:12] USB Mics - 3-1: that

[00:16:13] USB Mics - 3-1: the flip side of Virgil Alos vision was that all

[00:16:17] USB Mics - 4-1: of his

[00:16:18] USB Mics - 3-1: clothing was really easily reproducible.

[00:16:20] USB Mics - 3-1: So not only did he enjoy, but he also encouraged people to

[00:16:25] USB Mics - 4-1: Essent.

[00:16:26] USB Mics - 4-1: Forged

[00:16:27] USB Mics - 3-1: his practice. And so many of the things he created were easily, uh, purchasable at like Home Depot or a hardware

[00:16:36] USB Mics - 4-1: store

[00:16:37] USB Mics - 3-1: near to. . you. So he was encouraging, essentially like copycats to come in and create versions of

[00:16:44] USB Mics - 4-1: his work. So

[00:16:46] USB Mics - 3-1: this idea that, you know, pricing is an

[00:16:50] USB Mics - 4-1: insurmountable

[00:16:52] USB Mics - 3-1: battle

[00:16:53] USB Mics - 4-1: of

[00:16:54] USB Mics - 3-1: ego is just part of the art story. I mean, just

[00:16:58] USB Mics - 4-1: looking at

[00:16:58] USB Mics - 3-1: the expanse of art

[00:17:00] USB Mics - 4-1: history

[00:17:00] USB Mics - 3-1: and also looking at the absurdity of the art market pricing today. Um, we have to come at this with humor and

[00:17:10] USB Mics - 3-1: self-respect.

[00:17:12] USB Mics - 1-1: Yeah. That reminds me of the Tasha book. Something's Off, which Virgil worked on with Taschen. It's. Neon green and you open it up and when I first looked at it, I saw the zip ties on some of the sneakers that he had designed and I didn't really get it.

[00:17:38] USB Mics - 1-1: But after speaking in more detail about it, understanding that something someone else could easily reproduce that and no one from far away would know the difference.

[00:17:51] USB Mics - 1-1: There's so much genius in that, and I love the idea of having a playful energy about your work and your pricing. It just makes everything more fun.

[00:18:08] USB Mics - 3-2: And so to

[00:18:09] USB Mics - 4-2: continue

[00:18:09] USB Mics - 3-2: on this idea of the different

[00:18:12] USB Mics - 4-2: psychological states that come up with pricing, whether that's humor or

[00:18:16] USB Mics - 3-2: discomfort or

[00:18:18] USB Mics - 4-2: irony,

[00:18:19] USB Mics - 4-2: I really enjoy what the artist Kate Salen friend has to

[00:18:22] USB Mics - 4-2: say about

[00:18:23] USB Mics - 4-2: how she approaches sales in her work.

[00:18:26] My background is such that I'm primarily self taught as we talked about, I've been with Arena Gallery for 14 years and I've been a professional artist for 22 years. I started after my oldest son was born and I started sort of dabbling in it and because my background, career wise...

[00:18:52] My other life was in retail operations. And so, when I painted my first painting, my first thought was, Hmm, how do I sell it? You know, it wasn't like, Oh, I love it, let me put it over the mantel, and then hoard all my work. So, it was a real natural knee jerk reaction for me, and I just think that that comes from my background.

[00:19:16] And so I don't, I don't have an emotional attachment like some artists can get to their own work. and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't have a big enough house to keep all my paintings. So it's, it's very natural for me to sell my work. And luckily enough. I've been able to make a career out of it, and this is what I do full time.

[00:19:38] So I don't have a side gig. This is my gig. and there are a lot of professional artists out there that do make their living working full time as an artist. As much as people like to pretend like we don't exist they, there are a lot of us and successful at what they do. So, I'm, I'm happy to be part of that club, for sure.

[00:20:01] Yeah, and when you first started painting, was, did, were you using gold leaf? Or, like, what were you painting when you first started painting? You know, that kind of evolved, it, I started I was pretty well known in, not, this sounds very lofty. I was well known in San Francisco for my fruit. I used to do these enormous paintings with like plums that were this size kind of thing.

[00:20:28] Okay, I do remember those. Yeah. So yeah, Irina gave it a short run and so I was, I was known primarily for doing. Just. I was on this fruit bender for a long, long time. Every artist has their period, you know, like Picasso with his blue period and everything. I went through my Jasper Johns phase and, you know, went into fruit and all these different directions.

[00:20:50] And thenwhat I always tell people that are painters or artists getting into it is, is you have to find your own voice. it's a very important thing, especially if like artists that you talk to, like, how do I sell my work? How do I get out to galleries or, you know, not that galleries are the end all.

[00:21:08] It's a great way to sell work, but there's a thousand different ways to sell your art. I don't want anybody to think that they're, it's so limited, but one thing I always tell people and especially people wanting to like develop their own art business is they have to find their own voice. You have to discover what it is that you are best at and what's your unique voice.

[00:21:34] And in my case, along the line I went from fruit. I guess my theme has always been agriculture then because I went from fruit. And eventually it turned into primarily trees. And so I'm really mostly known for the tree paintings birch tree paintings and then also floral paintings that, like the one I showed in the postcard and it just, it was just a natural evolution, and it really has everything to do with actively painting,

[00:22:09] But the natural evolution of your own work and finding your own voice can only happen if you are doing what you do every day. It's, it's not about up here. It's actively doing the thing and in my case, making the art, painting the painting. And one painting always leads to the next painting.

[00:22:32] And so through that, the more I would work, the more I would concentrate and focus on what I'm doing and new ideas in my head. But it's the act of doing it where you find your own voice.

[00:22:46] And so how much, you know, do you feel like your background in retail and sales influence you as a professional artist? Well, it influences me a lot. It has a, it has a huge, there's a huge component that works to my advantage because of the way I think about things when I'm making art and, and that it's natural for me to sell the art.

[00:23:18] And one of the things that it's, I always keep in mind is that I accept the opportunity and then I figure out how. So it's, it's not about like, I need to be this perfect composite of what an artist is in order to be an artist. No, I, I sell myself as an artist. I take the opportunity and then I figure out, okay, I can do this.

[00:23:45] This is what I do. Now figure out how to do it. You know, whether that's a 20 foot painting and I've never been on a scaffold or, you know, whatever it is, things that might intimidate. It's more important to accept that thing and bring it in and then figure it out. We're all good problem solvers. That's all it is.

[00:24:06] Yeah, that's so cool. So it's like you're, you're getting out way outside your comfort zone. You're doing something, you're committing to something before you're 100 percent sure you can even do it.

[00:24:18] And a lot of people get caught up in the notion of, like, I, and I'm going to use the example of that opportunity I had to do those commissions with the 49er stadium.

[00:24:33] And it's a perfect example of there were only about 25 artists chosen to fill up the entire 49er stadium with art. I was one of the artists that was chosen and they commissioned me for three paintings and that are still there. That's a part of the permanent work. And in conversations I've had over the years, people have said, well, it's one of those, those conversations of, well, why you?

[00:25:01] You know, there are so many other artists out there and, and there are millions of artists and fantastic artists. And some that are so far beyond my, my technical expertise and some that are so far below, right? Well, the answer is, why not me? Why not me? Somebody liked my art, so why shouldn't it be me? and it's, it's a message that's so important to get into your head to bring success to you is why shouldn't it be me? Why not? Why not me? Yeah. It could have been somebody else, but it was me. So and, and, and that, that message to myself. helps me to not undermine my own abilities. It helps me to know that I can do this thing just as well as anybody else.

[00:26:02] And I can make this happen just as well as anybody else. It gives me that fuel. So so I think that's what I carry with me through my when I was in a different industry. That had a really strong effect on me learning how to be successful learning and embracing that and learning how to make sure that I'm giving myself the tools to, to be successful, that I can do anything I want to do.

[00:26:34] And, you know, it's just a matter of doing it. something that I share with people all the time, is taking action is doing.

[00:26:45] And doing is showing up, showing up for the thing, and not being the one that doesn't, not being the slate, not being the, the one that cancels the plan or undermines themselves or whatever, but showing up for the thing and doing it, doing the, whatever that is that you do. I can do this. This is what I do.

[00:27:08] USB Mics - 1-2: So whether you are uber emotional or non-emotional, super ironic or not ironic, no matter what, you can make sales. So take some time to go inward and figure out what feels good for you so that you can pull your pricing outta your back pocket at a moment's notice and start selling your work.