Designing Your Art Practice with Intention

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Chuba & Chine: Doing the work makes us happy. Like the work itself makes us happy.

[00:00:03] Chuba & Chine: It's just like creating makes us happy. But afterwards, right. The market's in the salads, the putting it out there, the packaging, whatever it is that we then need to do to move it forward, then it's just like, ah, I really want to do this. But the truth is you can't run a business that way. Like you have to do all the other nuts, fun aspects of it, but slowing down helps you really map out. Exactly what it is that you want to see in the end.

[00:00:36] Chuba & Chine: We've always been in design. We just didn't know it. from childhood, we've always been very interested in the design of everything. Um, we've always been very connected to specifically nature, whether it's plants or.

[00:00:50] Chuba & Chine: Trees or, yeah, we've always used, so he's just fascinated us or caterpillars. Um, yeah, just, you know, watching their legs, like the squiggly legs in there, solid, like it's just, it's all, it's just, we've always just been fascinated by the details that nature has.

[00:01:08] Isotta: This is Art Is… a podcast for artists where we visualize the future of the art world. This season, we are revisiting the topics and ideas introduced in season one, through conversations with industry leaders, emerging artists and creative change-makers. Today we pick up and expand upon season one, episode, two iteration and critique, which delved into the value of our base knowledge tools through a conversation with the incredibly talented design duo, Cina and tuba as aggressively Chine and Chuba are identical twins based in Abuja, Nigeria.

[00:01:39] Isotta: Together. They founded a Akanka and interdisciplinary design studio. Their academic backgrounds are actually in sociology and economics, which informed the interdisciplinary nature of their creative processes. Tina and tuba described themselves as biophilic designers. Their mission philosophy and design framework finds its roots and intentionality in their communal experiences of nature, their energy and enthusiasm is uniquely compelling. I learned a great deal from our conversation and only further cemented the notion in my mind

[00:02:09] Isotta: That we must embrace the dynamic mindset of interdisciplinary learning to expand our horizons, both personally and professionally. The mission of art is, has been to encourage early career creatives, art students, and emerging artists to seek out possible futures for the art world.

[00:02:24] Isotta: One where our creative ambitions and professional needs are met this monumental, but essential task will only progress effectively. If we look to strategies and innovations from beyond our comfort zones,

[00:02:34] Isotta: only when we look outside of the traditional art world and start breaking down barriers between creative disciplines, will we start building a better, more inclusive art world

[00:02:43] Isotta: exploring thinking and embracing creative practices, like a conscious framework of intention, which Tina and tuba explain in depth in this episode will enable us as emerging artists to expand our creative knowledge tools, bring the confidence we have in our studio, work to the business side of our art careers.

[00:02:59] Isotta: And overcome professional challenges posed by the traditionalism of the art world. COVID 19 and beyond. I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

We have always walks together. I think as as children, we didn't have toys or, um, any of the stuff that kids had. So we, we spent a lot of time just really creating our own fund. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We couldn't afford all this toys. So we just. We just created stuff. Um, and it's been, it's been great because I think I'm one of the conversations that we, we we've been having recently sort of the privilege that comes with being twins and working together.

[00:03:43] Chuba & Chine: When you're one person who's creating this there's room for doubt, right. Because you're just like, is what I've done. Is it that, uh, uh, you know, you're at least sort of looking for validation from other people. As twins, you know, anyone it's just like, oh man, like this is dope.

[00:04:04] Chuba & Chine: It's as true. Yes. You know, and, and that sort of builds the sense of confidence, a creative confidence in what we do. And, and so it just sort of made it, made it easier to start things that other people wouldn't do, just because they'd be doing it by themselves, unless You had someone, a best friend or good friend to do it with.

it's an advantage that we have =because I also have identical twins, uh, from a nature also nurture. Point of view. Uh, the sense of taste is very, it's very similar, but at the same time also different.

[00:04:38] Chuba & Chine: And no one, there's no hard feelings. It's just like, yeah, can we do this differently? And then the other

[00:04:42] Chuba & Chine: person's like, ah, I see what you did like, and it makes sense. So it's, it's a, it's a privilege that we have, but I think more than anything else, starting a business together really teaches you. To communicate better because just being twins doesn't mean you have good communication.

[00:05:00] Chuba & Chine: It doesn't like in fact, some twins hate each other, you know, and, but, but what's helpful is when you do, and you're like, you know what, we have to do this business and this business has to run and then it means you have to do whatever it takes to communicate better. Um, and, and that's really what we've done.

[00:05:19] Chuba & Chine: And we've been grateful for that because it's really helped our relationship. Like over the time.

Do you think that those experiences studying economics and sociology impacted the way you've developed your business I know that interdisciplinarity is a huge part of a concur, and I'd love to hear a little bit about how that feeds into the design that you're working on and how you're building your business.

just speaking from my own perspective as a sociologist, Uh, one of the things that you, that you realize, you know, shortages is that everything is designed.

[00:05:49] Chuba & Chine: I mean, when I say everything, I mean, systems are designed, um, as a society, decisions are really made out of design or a lack of design and.

[00:05:58] Chuba & Chine: When you're able to see how this decisions really affect the society, able to, you know, you get a sense that design is not just limited to move in pixels, but is when it's really, um, um, as intrinsic as the decisions you make in your life and, and how it affects the society as a whole. So a lot about our evolution as a company, as really included that as included that evolution of consciousness.

[00:06:22] Chuba & Chine: So it's, it's that we're not just designing because, um, Do we want to move pixels or make money, or we're also, or most importantly design, because we want to be able to change the world, you know, for, for better change of our reality, to be one that is peace, joy, and happiness. So it really impacted how we think about this themes in a way that was more systemic than just a singular. Because the states of design just needed to be improved in, in Nigeria.

[00:06:51] Chuba & Chine: Um, it felt like a lot of design was not as intentional as it needed to be. So we said, you know, what, what does it look like to, to, as opposed to just talking about it, looked like to actually do something about it. So that's how, that's how we started the content. Yeah it's interesting because you're hearing him say this way, the year you say this has been interesting, because what you realize is the two fields, like, feel that economists in the field of sociology or fields that look at things from a systematic point of view.

[00:07:22] Chuba & Chine: So how does the other distance operates or affect the system you think about economics, for example, um, the fall in the price of oil. Could significantly impact a whole lot of aspects of the entire system and economic system. Right. And is this the same thing to decisions that are made in particular aspects of, our society?

functions affects every other thing. So how then do you, you know, so for us, we see, we think about design from that point of view and respecting whatever we're designing, you're thinking about different points of view. So if we're working with a business, for example, um, We were not the kind of people you call to say, Hey, just design a website for us.

[00:08:06] Chuba & Chine: Like, and the first question we're going to ask you is what's your intention and how does this website link to every other aspect of what your business is about? Because that is helpful in helping us ensure that we're designing something that's cohesive as a brand for you. So that understanding is very, very key across everything that we design is are we ensuring that.

[00:08:27] Chuba & Chine: It's we understand the role that design plays in, whatever it is that we're doing, that we are showing that we understand the intention because once we do, then it's a lot better and you design something that actually works.

I have such intentionality in the studio when I'm making a piece. I work in sculpture, so it's kind of, it's very systematic, but then when I think about, okay, well, how do I want to show my work?

[00:08:51] Isotta: Or where do I want to put it? How do I want to interact with the world? I lose all of that because I don't have that creative confidence outside of making. And that's something that I've been really concerned with and thinking a lot about in the last year. During the pandemic and seeing the state of the creative industries.

I was wonderingif you could speak to the design mindset that you guys use in creating this intentionality to ensure that both for your private practices and also for the client work, you do there's, cohesiveness and there's a plan and that there's sustainability for that project.

[00:09:27] Chuba & Chine: Yeah.

[00:09:31] Chuba & Chine: Um, I think a good place to start is how we came up with this. We, I think we sort of just. Designed without really knowing. So then people would ask us, how, how are you guys, how you said creative, we really couldn't explain, you know, it's like, you sort of just did it, but you couldn't explain lane why and how that happened.

[00:09:54] Chuba & Chine: Um, but during the lockdown period, which is what last year we, um, we spent the entire time to an in, , A concrete walkway into, into a botanical garden. And it meant that we had to do crazy amounts of gardening and doing a crazy amount of gardening. We really, really, really got up and close with nature in, in to the level that we hadn't in the longest time and in doing so there's sort of, there's a lots of lessons that came out of it and we distilled those lessons into.

will be called the framework of intention because nature is very intentional and, um, yeah. And that framework is going to talk about it. Yeah. So the framework of intention, um, it's broken down to three steps or so think of it as, as a cycle too, as well. Um, and the first part of the framework is to, is to slow down.

[00:10:52] Chuba & Chine: I think that was one of the things that she's been in touch with nature, you know, brought it to us just that. The recognition of the fact that we had to slow down when you want to do anything before you, if you want to be intentional, if you want to have an idea for what to have a plan, you have to really slow down that.

[00:11:08] Chuba & Chine: So you think about what it is that you want to do, or is it that you want to get to think of it as a journey, you know, um, before you get on Johnny, you have to have a sense of where it is you're going, as opposed to just driving. Um, so slow now is a very key part of that. and slowing down, takes place in different ways.

one of the ways to slow down is true meditation. Meditation is a great way because when you slow down to meditate, you can be in the moment. And that is very key, because if you're in reality, you want to ensure that everything that is happening, you're aware of it. And that you are in sync with your surroundings.

And just being able to meditate is a key step into being able to get yourself locked into reality as it is. Another way of slowing down is also journaling. Journaling is good because it allows you to reflect.

[00:11:56] Chuba & Chine: And that is very important. And then one of the things that we say is that your life is a movie. And if you slow down to reflect, you're going to be able to see sort of the important parts of your life. And you're also going to see, the patterns as well. And when you're able to see the patterns you are able to know what about those patterns, can you make better?

[00:12:13] Chuba & Chine: And what about those patterns can you adjust or change or really eliminate? So doing this allows you to really see your life in a timeline that allows you to make better decisions in your future. I think another part of slowing down, there's also exercising as well. Exercising is a good way to slow down when you're exercising.

[00:12:32] Chuba & Chine: You're really repeating that process over and over again. And that puts you in almost a meditative state that allows your mind to concentrate and focus and that concentration and focus just like with meditation is key towards being able to create an intention. Yeah. The framework is sort of think about it like buckets and whatever goes into that bucket. It's very contextual. So in the case of why not, why we list. These actions first is because we believe that it's important that whatever it is that you're doing starts from your mind is that within, um, because once you can do that, then it's easier for you to apply this framework even to the work that you do.

[00:13:11] Chuba & Chine: So for example, you talk about your sculptures that you create, right? And then you get to the part where it comes to sort of the presentation or like marketing, or I didn't know what other words he wants to use, and then you sort of thing. But I go, and I think this is where the framework comes in, where once you what's, what.

[00:13:29] Chuba & Chine: What do you, what, when you slowing down yet starting. The projects by saying, am I looking at this from a holistic point of view, either. So as opposed to just to create some, because that's, and that's the thing we created as it can be. So like doing the work makes us happy. Like the work itself makes us happy.

[00:13:47] Chuba & Chine: It's just like creating makes us happy. But afterwards, right. The market's in the salads, the putting it out there, the packaging, whatever it is that we then need to do to move it forward, then it's just like, ah, I really want to do this. But the truth is you can't run a business that way. Like you have to do all the other nuts, fun aspects of it, but slowing down helps you really map out.

[00:14:14] Chuba & Chine: Exactly what it is that you want to see in the end. So in the end, right? It's not just that you want to create in the end it's that you want to create, and then the steps are included. So when you slow down, you know, what the steps are, and then it's helpful for you when you then moving on in terms of the project.

the second step then helps you see what it is that you need. And the second step is for you to. Give gratitude. So that's what we call the second step. Give gratitude, because when you're in a state of gratitude, you see what surrounds you, you know, and many times it can get super easy to just focus on just the work and then you sort of tunnel vision yourself into it.

[00:14:53] Chuba & Chine: Um, and then you're not seeing those resources that you're surrounded with, you know? So whether it's, um, Thinking about, okay. I I'm, I'm not really good at setting, but do I know someone who can help with that? or who can I talk to or what resource can they listen to or learn or read because there's this information out there that can then help you become better at that aspects that you might find difficult, but it will only come when

[00:15:20] Chuba & Chine: So you slow down enough to know that you need it. Right. And then soon you're great. Yeah. You're giving gratitude enough to know that, you know what I'm grateful for, what exists outfit gratitude helps you see? So once you're able to see, uh, you're able to then therefore say, okay, I need this. Okay. You know what, thank you life for presenting this to me.

[00:15:42] Chuba & Chine: Now, I'm going to take this and use this to move. My project forward. Right? So that's where gratitude comes in. Um, we can talk about it's also just from the mental aspects of it, of gratitude of giving gratitude, because. It's an entirely, it's a super policy to have where you're able to say, how am I, what am I I'm like, how am I expressing gratitude on a consistent basis?

[00:16:09] Chuba & Chine: They're respective of what happens. And this is especially critical for creatives because a lot of times when things don't go well for creatives, or maybe we get like a bad. Review or something creative sort of like, just let it sink them. And it's, it's a very important thing to not let situations that come,destabilize you as a creative, because once it damages your confidence that that's everything, you know, it's becomes a lot more difficult to think and be creative.

but once you're in the states of gratitude, you're saying to yourself, irrespective of what comes I'm going to see the lessons. in it and now take the lessons out of it. Right. And the rest, whatever, you know, but what are the lessons that you can learn from it? So even if someone, someone leaves a harsh review of your work, right.

[00:16:57] Chuba & Chine: What can you take out of it? Like even just as a creative that's content for you? Like, how do you take that and spin it into something? How do you create a sculpture of, of, uh, of negative reviews? I don't know something cool. Like there's always something to be done as a creative you're you are a God in that world and you can create whatever.

[00:17:16] Chuba & Chine: Right. But yeah. It only happens when you stop running away from situations that might be unpleasant because that then stops you from experimenting. And that's very important part of that growth. So, yeah, that's the second step. And then I guess, Teaneck, and then talk about how the fed steps actually helps you, take whatever lessons that you've learnt and also the blessings that have also come because you'd be.

[00:17:39] Chuba & Chine: You've you've opened up yourself to learning and how you then take that and run with it. yeah, but that step is to take responsible ability. taking responsibility is key because it allows you to take those lessons and the blessings that life leaves you it's. Uh, in every moment and allows you to take them and convert them into something that allows you move forward in life or allows you to get what it is that you want out of life.

we always have this, um, example, if I was to, give you a potato. Okay. As a gift, you know, basket of potatoes as a gift and you don't cook it, you just live in there, you don't do anything. It it's going to spoil, you know, and that's, that's the same way you think about life.

[00:18:25] Chuba & Chine: They're all this things that are available to us. They're the blessings. These, these are the resources that exist. We didn't ask and also outside us. But if you don't slow down enough to give gratitude for them and see them and then take responsibility for the using them or crafting them, nothing can exist.

[00:18:42] Chuba & Chine: You know, at the end of the day twice that you think of it as, as yourself as a sculpture, uh, I can give you a ton of clean out and be like, yeah, you go, yes, there's some clay to sculpt something, but if you don't sculpt clay, nothing happens, you know, nothing exists. So did that take your responsibility is really key, um, in terms of making and creating the future that it, that you want to see.

it really requires you to say, Right now I have what it requires to make what I want to see. Now it's about me putting in the energy. whatever it is, whether it's a decision, whether it's an, whether it's a product, whether it's it's an art, whatever it is, as, as long as you're able to sort of slow down enough to see what it is and see what you have to create it.

[00:19:28] Chuba & Chine: And then you take that step. That next step of actually taking responsibility to do it's the moment you're able to do that is the moment you all they've been intentional. it's so insightful to hear you guys explain that in such depth. Thank you. something that so many young emerging creatives are dealing with at the moment is this idea.

[00:19:51] Isotta: Of scarcity. Like there's only a few opportunities out there. There's only a few, jobs that are paid. There's only some residencies. There's only some shows that I can deal with. And so it fosters this incredible competition between peers, rather than what we would hope for, which is a supportive environment.

[00:20:10] Isotta: Personally, I've dealt with those feelings. And I know in the past episode that just came out, we talked about that in quite a lot of depth. So I wonder if you could speak to, that scarcity mentality and overcoming that feeling of competition and insecurity.

it's interesting because we've had similar conversations about the creative space as well, in Nigeria and how a lot of times you don't see. Collaboration because people think like this, not enough. I have to get it. I have to be number one.

I think we talked about, what does it look like to conquer that mentality? One of the things that we say is that whatever it is that you see or that you believe out of life is what life brings to you.

[00:20:57] Chuba & Chine: So if all you see is scarcity, you will find scarcity.I mean, it's also just a psychological us. I think part of being an economist is also, I'm a behavioral economist right in that is what you call, Confirmation bias. And when you're running with a scarcity mindset, you're going to always find scarcity surrounds you all the time. of course the reality is still there, which is that there are limited number of where their residencies or opportunities or whatever.

Well, I think what's helpful is thinking about how you create opportunities for yourself that don't exist. and that's a lot harder. but the one thing that happens right, is a lot of times. People only see the things that they think are available because that's what everyone else has seen.

[00:21:44] Chuba & Chine: And that's fi easy thing to see. So of course it's going to be scarred because everyone can see it and everyone's going to go for it. Right. But I think one of the things that we try to do is push ourselves to ask the question, how do we see more opportunities? How do we see more opportunities that we can create for ourselves?

[00:22:05] Chuba & Chine: And that's a lot more difficult. It is a lot more difficult, right? Because I mean, we had to do that as a business where we're over time, you'd be focused less On the standard, things that come with that, being a design studio, brand identities, websites, other, those sort of things, because everyone is competing there.

[00:22:26] Chuba & Chine: And then the question is, how do you create what business people call a blue ocean? Like how do you basically create a whole new pathway that opens up? A space of opportunity and the truth is if you don't think that that's possible, it's never going to be possible. It just, isn't going to be possible for us.

[00:22:46] Chuba & Chine: We have to tell ourselves it's possible for us to become a new type of company that focuses on more than just design the way with C design. And what that has done for us is that it's opened up whole new opportunities that we didn't think about. We'd never seen coming and we're not even scratched the surface of them because we're able to say it's going to be a lot harder for us to say, Hey, what does it look like to look outside of where everyone is looking.

[00:23:14] Chuba & Chine: It's always going to be a lot more difficult. And who does the work of taking responsibility to find that.

do you guys, use visualization or goal setting or are there any kind of frameworks that you use to project ideas

[00:23:28] Chuba & Chine: Yeah. what's the vibe. What's the vibe really? because if you're able to identify the vibe, I know it sounds so wishy washy, but it's a thing like it's like how do you, how should it make you feel? So for example, people think that if I happiness, Is defined by having $1 million in my account. Right. But a lot of people get to $1 million in their account and they're like, holy crap. I am not happy there, but that's because they didn't look at it from a point of view of how the feeling of what do I want, what do I imagine?

[00:24:05] Chuba & Chine: It would feel like to actually be happy versus a proxy. The $1 million is a proxy. The actual feeling itself ease the feeling. Yeah. So once he can focus on the feeling that you want to feel. You're more likely to get that. As a matter of fact, you could even get that on a dollar, a dollar would, it would be maybe what it takes for you to actually get there.

[00:24:27] Chuba & Chine: Once you're able to really focus on the feeling. And then you can see that that dollar is what then allows you to get to the $1 million. what's the point of it is. When you focus on the feeling on the energy that you want to feel on the vibe that you want to feel, you're more likely to get to what it is you want to get to because the way life works is that what you're focused on is what becomes your reality.

[00:24:50] Chuba & Chine: And a lot of people are focused on the proxies for what they believe happiness is that focused on money. They're focused on a better job. They're focused on better clients and. Olive, all distances are just proxies. so what happens is they get there and then they're like, yeah, I want more, this is not enough.

[00:25:05] Chuba & Chine: I think I need, it's never enough. you know, but once the focus is on exactly how you want to feel, I want to feel happy. All of a sudden you're creating based on that. And a concrete example of this is our studio, um, where we started to create in our studio. We, we told us also, like we want to be able to create a space that feels like.

[00:25:26] Chuba & Chine: Like, you know, like therapy for them, for the mind. I just feels like heaven. Like, we want that to be the feeling that you come in and you just, you like call them and have it. Like, I feel so good. Like whatever is in your mind, just, you know, goals. and because we started it from that direction, as opposed to saying, we want to create a student that has this and that has that.

[00:25:46] Chuba & Chine: So that has that. And then it has that immense that we were. Across the tone of creating the studio. There were serendipitous moments that led us towards creating something that matches exactly the energy that we started with in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. So I think just to also bring it back and make it a bit more concrete for listeners, right.

[00:26:08] Chuba & Chine: You start with what you want the energy to feel like. So whatever you can call it visualization, like you, you sort of projected, so then you work backwards. So then you say, okay, this is what I wanted to look like or feel like for based on where I am now as well. What resources do I have that can, that I can use to get me towards that feeling?

[00:26:34] Chuba & Chine: Or two has that vibe and you start using those resources because many times people sort of visualize. And then they see something so huge and then it just discouraged him like, well, that was fun. That was fun. This is not going to like, I need $20,000 or a hundred thousand. Let's get this off the ground, you know, versus visualizing and then asking yourself, what does it, wasn't a minimum viable product look like?

what do I have right now that can at least get one step further? And we had to do that because we need. We didn't have money to design the studio. We just sort of scrounge from here and there. And then, you know, with something would come and we'd say, oh, this, this works for the vibe. And they would put it there.

[00:27:19] Chuba & Chine: And that works with, put it there. But I think starting with that intention and then visualizing the intention and then really mapping out. It's like sort of working backwards to say, what are the things that would then need to come together to make this possible is a helpful framework for, for people to build this.

[00:27:40] Chuba & Chine: But then the other rule is always use what you have There's so much that people have that they don't realize that they do because the fucker. So when you use what you have, it makes it easier for you to get to that final destination.

what's so amazing about that is I feel like so many artists. Start with that, you know, with their practice, I want to make a painting. I want it to be 10 meters by 10 meters. Well, okay. I only have one meter of canvas. Okay. Start with one reader, you know, and just being like myself in the studio, I became obsessed with casting resin, which was a really expensive material.

[00:28:22] Isotta: So I just decided, okay. I'll cast mostly with cement and then just use like two or three centimeters of residents so that it has that impact, but I was, you know, what I could afford. I feel like we have all these skills in our, in our creative belt, in our toolbox, but we're afraid to take them out of the studio and extending them to our personal lives.

[00:28:43] Isotta: Our professional mindsets is it's so necessary.

[00:28:45] Chuba & Chine: Yeah, when you've all you've said is really good point, because one of the things that we haven't talked about is that people sort of create this delineations between work and personal life. And it's just like, it's actually like, you know, it's, it's all one and the same and the habits that you cultivate in your personal life.

[00:29:03] Chuba & Chine: How many to your business life and the decisions and habits that you make in your business life, your personal life, because they're all one in the same. The certain things that people do in business that moves the business forward. Right. And businesses like people see businesses as a lot more high stake, like someone's money is English.

[00:29:19] Chuba & Chine: So we have to do things in this process. Now, if the process works right. Why don't we just take the same process and apply it also to your personal life or other aspects of your life. So if, if you're creating and you see that, the second thing is like we do have that helps you get the work done. Think about how those same things apply to your business life, right.

[00:29:42] Chuba & Chine: Or to your personal life as well. And that's what we've had to do with the framework where we saw that, okay, this works. From a business point of view in terms of creating something. But then we have to say to ourselves, okay, what does it look like to use this framework in how, in terms of how we communicate with each other?

[00:30:02] Chuba & Chine: And it was fin tastic, right? Because all of a sudden we saw that. Energy skills. And that's one thing to always remember energy skills. So if you can, if you just sort of remove that mental block and SES, this is work and this is life and a different life is work is a huge aspect of your life.

[00:30:22] Chuba & Chine: They're not different. So when people say work life balance, it doesn't really kind of sense because. Your work is kind of, you know, your life, your life, you know, so I think, and this is not a, this is not an argument. It's not a case of saying spending your entire time working because that's your life. No, it's just that make sure that the good habits that you have in your personal life also show up in your work life and then make sure that the good habits that you have in your work life also show up in your personal life.

[00:30:49] Chuba & Chine: And then that way you actually just feel like you're having fun. Like whenever you to start your working.

[00:30:55] Chuba & Chine: eventually all we all just want to do is as be, yeah.That's it. That's it. Yeah. So you can just find us on a canker design on Instagram, or you can find tuba is X, C H U B a E Z E K S and C H I N E E K S uh, I suppose. From my last words, I remember just slow down, give gratitude, take responsibility, and figure out how you can apply to everything that you do. And you will always come up with a most designed response or products or action to it.

[00:30:59] Isotta: Thank you for listening to the second episode of Art Is… a podcast for artists season two. This episode I'd like to thank our guests, Chine and Chuba, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your wisdom with us. If you enjoyed this episode, please share Art Is… a podcast for artists with a friend. Also, remember to subscribe to Art Is… a podcast for artists

[00:31:48] Isotta: Is. so that you got our next episode in your feed out on June 15th. And before you go, I wanted to mention the Art Is… a podcast for artists bookshop created through bookshop.org, an online platform built to financially support local independent bookstores. It's important to me that this podcast is a resource for you.

[00:32:04] Isotta: So I've carefully curated a selection of books for your continued professional and personal development. You can find links to both us and UK bookshops in the episode description and on the artist's Instagram and Twitter at art as podcast. They purchasing books through these links, you'll be supporting independent bookstores and this podcast.

[00:32:22] Isotta: Thanks and see you soon.